After The Call: Chad From Mental Joe

In this episode, we sit down with Chad from Mental Joe to talk about the battles most people fight in silence. Chad opens up about his personal journey through trauma, mental health struggles, addiction, and the road to healing — turning pain into purpose along the way.

Mental Joe is more than a brand. It’s a movement focused on breaking the stigma around mental health, creating conversations that matter, and helping people realize they’re not alone in the fight. From rock bottom moments to rebuilding his life and helping others do the same, Chad shares a raw and honest story that will hit home for a lot of people.

If you or someone you know is struggling, this conversation is one you need to hear.

Make sure to check out MentalJoe.com and support the mission.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to After the Call, the podcast dedicated to the stories and struggles behind the badge, the turnout gear, and the uniform. Each week we'll bring you a powerful conversation with first responders, mental health professionals and advocates who are breaking the stigma, sharing their journeys, and offering real solutions. We'll talk about PTSD resilience, family impact, and the resources that can make a difference. Because the job doesn't just leave scars on the body, it affects the mind, the heart, and the people who serve alongside it. And no one should have to carry that burden away. This is After the Call, or you'll find strength to be resilient.

SPEAKER_05 0:37

Welcome to another episode of After the Call. I'm your host, Patrick. I'm followed by the big cheese.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

Veronica.

SPEAKER_05 0:44

We got Big Arms Josh over here.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Hello.

SPEAKER_05 0:47

And we got Chad with Mental Joe Apparel. Quickly, we are going to give a shout-out for uh dispatchers because it is uh telecommunication week. Um so we wanted to thank our sponsors who donated to the cause. So we have Jamie with McCrummins Bakery, we have Alma Ramirez with the City of Tempe. We have Frank and Nicole as well as McKenna and Richard from the TRT spot. Anybody else are missing?

SPEAKER_04 1:17

That's it.

SPEAKER_05 1:18

And thank you, dispatchers. Apparently I forgot to do that before. Alright, so um we actually got connected through um Erica Van Paris from Guided Journey. Yep. Um and I've and it's weird because I've been following your apparel line for like forever. Because I always thought it was super cool, right? Because you have that mix of psilocybin and all this other stuff with like really retro cool other designs, right? Which I thought was awesome. Um and then when she like told me who you were, I was like, fuck, I know that guy. Like, or I knew you know your apparel, so that's super cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Well, and you guys just had Mark Kerman on too, didn't you recently? Yeah, and Mark and I are really close friends. In fact, uh ended up getting Mark the job at the Ketamin clinic that he works at now. So yeah, I mean, you know, seven different connections with one kind of a deal, you know.

SPEAKER_05 2:11

So cool, man. Yeah. All right, so give us a little background of you. I I know you're obviously in in the army.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Yeah, yeah. Also I always welcome it. I always tell people, yeah, try to give them the 10,000 foot version of you know how I got where we're at today, you know. Um, you know, I was a Billings Montana kid, you know, grew up in Montana. Um single, single household. I was a middle child, older brother, younger sister. You know, didn't really do the whole school thing real well, right? You know, it was more of a party and and what can I do, played sports for a while and kind of hit that junior year where I was like, well, fuck, what am I gonna do in life? I didn't know what I was gonna do, didn't you know, I didn't have the grades to go to college, you know, it wasn't something I was gonna do, so I went and signed up for the military. And you know, Cap and Gown weren't even on ground yet, and I'm already in boot camp, you know. So went through boot camp, did really well there, uh, got offered an airborne slot while I was in boot camp. So went to airborne school right after that. During airborne uh school, uh the 75th Ranger Regiment liaison came down. So for folks that aren't familiar, uh Ranger Regiment is Bar Special Operations Group. And so I went down there, and at the time it's called RIP, which is Ranger Indoctrination Program. So went through Ranger Indoctrination Program, passed that, um, and then went out to Second Ranger Battalion in Fort Lewis, Washington. Um was doing really well there, almost to the point where I was getting ready to transition into sniper section. So things were kind of lining up, you know, as a young ranger and ranger battalion and cutting my teeth in special operations. And uh we ended up doing a mass attack night jump into Spokane uh Fairchild Air Force Base. And through that jump, um, my parachute ended up collapsing on me. Oh wow, and I burnt in. Um, I don't know if it was, I always I don't know if it was 100 feet or 10 feet, or if my chute ended up redeploying as I was falling. Um, but I was out cold. I mean I hit the ground, um, woke up. I don't know how long I was out, um, but everything from the waist down was completely numb.

SPEAKER_05 4:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

No idea what the hell I was doing, what was going on, but eventually came to enough time. I think adrenaline finally kicked in that I had to like go meet up with my squad, right? And so that ended up happening, and then candidly, it's kind of where the spiral kind of went out of went out of whack. Um my back was jacked, um, my knees were killing me, and so what do you do? You want to be an operator, you don't want to fail, you don't want to go to sit call because now you have that label of being a pussy, right? Because you go to sit call, so that's the environment that you're in. Um so what do I do? I start popping what they call Ranger Candy, the 800 milligram ibuprofen, which really quickly turned into oxy to you know, whatever else I could get my hands on just to numb the pain. Um, and then from there just started drinking and drinking and fighting in the barracks and just doing shit you shouldn't do. But you know, I'm 19 years old and I'm trying to hold it all together. Um went to the PX, which is kind of a big Walmart, um, and went in there because uh we had pagers back in the day, there was no cell phones. And I went and I stole phone cards. Um, and what my thought process behind that was I just I needed to call my mom. Um I was spending money on pain pills and getting anything I could just to numb the pain and continue to be an operator, and uh ended up getting caught stealing those phone cards, and that was my demise. And so they took me back to Ranger Battalion and uh I got made into a huge example on that Monday morning. His uh first Sergeant Grippy was the first sergeant, and he brought me out in front of the whole company and said, Hey, you want to tell your brothers what you did this weekend? And I just got assassinated in front of probably 150 guys or so, and uh from there it was blood in the water. And so from there I just took hazing, dude just fucked with me constantly, you know. And I didn't I didn't boo-hoo about it. It was kind of like I screwed up, like I deserve the pain, like bring it, you know, you're not gonna break me. Like it is what it is. Um so candidly I hid from that from years and years and years for 20 plus years. I hid from that. I was just embarrassed about it, you know. I I didn't have much to go home to, you know, so I thought my stick was, you know, I was gonna be in special operations, I'd climb the ladder. That's kind of what I had in my mind, what I wanted to do. But you know, you did these things at 19 and just turned into embarrassment. Um all the way up until six years ago, next month, May. Um, I was standing in the hallway and me and my wife got in a huge fight, and I walked in, I grabbed the gun out of the safe. And I put the gun to my head and tension on the trigger, and I was just waiting. I think if she would have exhale wrong or said something, it would have been game over. Um but it was a weird pause, right? It was this really weird, almost like I'd almost say like an outer body experience type of a deal. Where things pause and all of a sudden I heard, ma'am, are you still there? And I was like, What in the fuck? And I look over and she's she's got her phone down on the side, and it was dispatch. And I I it came. Thank you, dispatchers. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, thank you, dispatchers. Um so that was kind of like the back into the body moment, I guess you would say. I looked at what it was uh the gun I had in my hand, and I ended up shucking the the round out. The round hit the ground, I dropped the magazine, and I walked right back, put the gun in the safe, put the put the rounds in another safe, took that nine round, set it on my desk, and then I walked outside. Um from there I was in the cuckoo bin, I like to call it, for a good solid week. Um, and through that process, I just told my wife, I was like, hey, something's gotta change. Like I'm I've been hiding popping pain pills for years from people. I drink way too much. I've tried every SSRI possible. Um, there's gotta be another way to do this. And so Carrie ended up doing a bunch of research and finding ketamine therapy. And so I was like, I don't care. Like if it's petrified dog shit and it's gonna fix my brain, like pile it up, let's go. And so probably a month after the cuckoo ban, um, jumped in and started doing ketamine therapy. And it wasn't probably till that seventh or eighth session where everything started to slow down for me. Wow, that's a lot of sessions to have for something cracks, dude. Yeah, it was. I mean, they normally in ketamine, most most clinics, if they're doing it right, they try to do like a six load up front where it's they load you for six, but it was I can still remember it. Um the aha moment for me was I was outside dumping trash and I came around the corner of my backyard, and I'm OCD to the max, and my backyard is trashed. I've got two young boys, and I just kind of looked at it, I'm like, huh. Like it didn't bother me. And I was kind of like, oh shit, man, maybe this is what it's like to live present. Like I never knew what it was to live present. And I at that moment I was like, you know what, there's gonna be a time, dude, that you're gonna wish your backyard was like this.

SPEAKER_05 8:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

Like just set with that. And so at that point, I s I really realized like, holy shit, like ketamine is this is something that's actually working. I've never felt this clean before. And then so from that, you know, I I continue to go to ketamine sessions, and and through that, um is where Mental Joe was born. Um, I was in a session and it was like, if you guys have been through any kind of plant medicine or ketamine session, you know, there's sometimes there's a huge billboard, that black hole, as they say, and clear as day, I just had this thing like kind of like a taker tip or you know, go through. And it was like start an apparel company. I'm like, what the fuck am I gonna do with apparel? You know, I was in corporate real estate for 20 years, and I'm like, I don't I don't know what I'm gonna do with apparel. Um, and from there it just kind of kept getting nudges, like certain people would come into my sphere of that we're in the apparel world, and I was like, okay, so I gotta do this thing. And then boom, we launched mental Jew Apparel. And so Mental Jew Apparel is really about building community, about bringing apparel, and it's really as you guys have seen, um, the t-shirts start conversations, and through those conversations, those conversations start to become more deeper, right? Now it's not, hey, how's the weather? It's we're in Phoenix, it's hot. It's hey, how are you? Where are you at in life? What do you want to talk about? Before you know it, people are just trauma dumping on you, right? And then before you know it, they're like, Yeah, we'd really like to try some microdosing. I'm really interested in ketamine, or I'm really interested in you know, a five MeO DMT experience or whatever. And so that's where Carrie and I have kind of become kind of this concierge like liaison for a lot of people. Um, I think we're super transparent, we're very authentic in our approach to this stuff. And so people reach out to us. Um, just I mean, last week we had over 15 people just reach out to me and Carrie about couples wanting to try MDMA. And seven of those or half of those people were men reaching out saying, Hey dude, like I know I'm disconnected from my wife. Like, we gotta find a ground, like, how do we get to this stuff? So that's kind of like where we're at at the 10,000 foot version of you know, from Montana kid now Arizona hacking t-shirts that are psychedelics.

SPEAKER_05 10:59

So that was 20 years and five minutes.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Yeah. Patrick and I talk about psychedelics all the time because we're psychonauts. Like, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

I love it. Yeah. When I think I think the problem is, right, is it's schedule one, right? So a lot of people are scared to talk about this stuff. But I always say if you can use this stuff in the right reverence and the right set and setting, as you guys know, it's fucking game changing. It is absolutely game changing. It opens up the door, it helps you look in the mirror to you know, the idiosyncrasies we have or the things that we have in our mind of like I'm not good enough or what have you, whatever we keep telling ourselves of that story, you know.

SPEAKER_05 11:35

That 80-20 talk that, you know, 80% is always bad and 20% is positive.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Exactly. So, yeah, I mean, we I'm huge, we're huge advocates of it. We've helped over 400 different people in the last three and a half years. Um, and that's just people reaching out to us on Instagram. Yeah, that we know of, you know, and uh we work with several different ketamine clinics here in the valley that they also work with the 100 club, and so we have gotten a ton of first responders through, and then there's that ripple effect, right? One guy sees, hey, this dude's walking a little differently in the ladders, you know, this dude's different in the firehouse, this dude's different over here, and it's like they start to notice that, and before you know it, now they're now they're talking at the firehouses going, Hey dude, you were quite a dick two months ago, or in fact, the last 10 years. It's the same thing, like you're wired tight.

SPEAKER_04 12:24

Mark have the same story too.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Yeah, you're just wired tight, right? I mean, you guys go into these houses and these people and their worst absolute moments, and you've got to try to deal with that, and you've got to compartmentalize the the feelings and the attitudes that come with that, and then you gotta go home and try to be a dad, you know? And it's like you just saw a kid cut in half by a car. Right. It's like how do you deal with that? Right. And so, as you guys know, like I said, that's why we are such big advocates of of the plant medicine. And then so for that, we just made a switch recently where we kind of made a real clean line in the sand. So we we got Mental Joe apparel, which is our apparel line, and it brings, you know, builds community and and whatnot, and then we have our Be the Bridge Foundation. And so what we do with that is part of uh the proceeds from our t-shirts go to the Be the Bridge Foundation, and then through there, what we do with that is we will take those funds and so individuals that you know want to go to an ayahuasca retreat or academy and they can't afford it, be the bridge is gonna be that gap. Nice so we're gonna be able to use apparel to build awareness and community, but profit for a purpose to help people out get through these. Because as you guys know, there's a barrier to entry to this stuff, and a lot of people don't have that three or four grand just sitting there to go get these things. But if you could risk the biscuit and do the thing, like it's life-saving. You just gotta change that mentality of like okay, I'm not gonna do the Starbucks every single day for a month, and I'll save that money to go.

SPEAKER_05 13:48

And that's what I was gonna say is that I I get there is that financial burden, yeah. But is that financial burden worth saving your life, changing your family, you know, changing the outcome of the negative to the positive? Yep. You know, if you can make those simple changes, I I get I have a fucking Dutch Brothers drinker here, but you know, if I was like, is it this or being happy?

SPEAKER_02 14:12

That's just it. Yeah, I mean it's it's coming to terms with uh what am I worth sacrificing to actually get my mental health back and be a better human being? You know, I tell people all that I mean the people that reach out to me, whoa, it's it's like three grand. Okay, cool. Well, how many more years are you gonna live? You know, take that three grand, divide that up, okay. So you're paying a penny to go get this reset, dude. So go figure it the fuck out. You know, so I'm I'm a no kind of bullshit in your face guy when it comes to this stuff because I've known firsthand. And again, as you guys know, it is a game changer, but you've got to put one foot in front of the other to make it happen. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

So for me, I just remember So the first time I did psychedelics was uh psilocydeman, and it was just me and a buddy in Sedona just being stupid. But I remember just having this experience was like something something was interesting there, right? And so I tried it about a week later on my own, and I just noticed the difference was I was so used to the own my story. I was so used to the constant story of what my Thursdays look like, what my Fridays look like, what my problems were in the world and what my goals were and what impediments were to them, right? And then you're on this substance, and for that period of time, that story no longer makes sense. It it it's not that it's not there, it's just I in in this state can't really connect with the stress, right? And it what it did was it just opened up the ability for the mind to create new connections, you know what I mean? Tell itself a different story, and give yourself maybe different goals than you had even before entering the psychedelics, right? It just seemed like once I began to try these substances, all of a sudden my mind wasn't solidifying every single moment of stress into something that had to be dealt with. You know what I mean? You could just be a passive bystander to whatever's going on and deal with whatever's your your your stress is, you can just deal with it the most appropriate way without expending all of the constant stress leading up to whatever event you're you're dealing with, if that makes sense. I might have been too wordy to the No no, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 16:22

Um I think a lot of the issues that we see with and I'm specifically focusing on the first response version, I guess um, is that one it's uncomfortable uncomfortable to be uncomfortable, right? So they're like, well, I'm not sure if I'm ready for change. But you don't like the situation you're in, so why not be uncomfortable for just a little bit to be better, right? But it's like they're caught in their in their way of like I need to be this this way, and almost it's almost like that victim mentality, and you just you stay in it, and it's just like why? You could really change a whole lot, but you're not willing to.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

I think it's our culture too, right? I mean, you look you look at the military, you look at you know, first responders, you know, from fire to police, the whole nine yards, it's very alpha male, like beat my chest, I gotta go do this thing, right? And if you show any kind of weakness or vulnerability, it's like I don't know how many first responders I've talked to, they're like, Chad, I I'm struggling mentally, but I know if I go to my captain or if I know I go to this individual and I say something, like now I got a mark on my thing, and maybe I lose my job because now I'm mentally ill per the psychologist. Now I can't carry a gun, so now I'm doing desk work. So it's this revolving door of like you can't, you know. I think I think it's starting to change, right? I think people are starting, and I'm I applaud the the fire guys because that's where the big change is coming in. It's still taking a long time for SWAT and police and those guys to kind of capture that because at the end of the day, what is their job? Well, they're going and they're arresting people that have Schedule One drugs on them, but unfortunately those people are doing it to numb out and they're selling them and they're drug dealers and they're not using these per se medicines right to write set and setting to heal. You know, so they have that stigma that's attached to it.

SPEAKER_04 18:10

That is a huge thing when I talk to guys who are still working, is that the detachment from changing it from a street drug and the effects of a street drug to medicine.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Yep. Well, what's funny, right, is I you talk to a lot, a lot of them are taking, oh I take an indica gummy at night and I'm doing my cannabis. So they're like they're they're smoking cannabis on the weekends, they're they're taking their gummy, so it's just like like cannabis has finally found I think that ground to be okay with people, and now it's now it's your psilocybin, but now it's your MDMA. And if if people understand, do you guys understand the history of like MDMA? No. And how so really MDMA, yeah, it's just fun. It's just fun. Yeah, it's funny. I know my history with it. Yeah, yeah. But like, so MDMA, I mean, back in the in the late 70s, early 80s, MDMA was actually used for couples therapy. That's what it was used for. And they they saw massive improvements with couples using MDMA. Unfortunately, it got released to the gay rave crowd down in Dallas. And so from there, that's where MDMA became Molly, became ecstasy, and they'd add extra amphetamines up there to keep you up all night to dance and do the raves and do all the things, right? So, and then 85, that's where MDMA got thrown on Schedule One. So, if you understand like how these molecules work within the brain and and how they're supposed to open up and and do the right things, again, it's all about set and setting, it's all about integrating those new things into your life as opposed to hey, I'm going to Burning Man once a year and I'm just, you know, I'm doing the thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Well, it's like you said, we we package all these compounds under one umbrella term, drugs, right? But each compound is different, each one has its different way it operates in the body, and we should have like a more mature conversation about like the compounds we want in our society and the ones we don't want in our society, you know. But I think most first responders give me give me a society full of weed heads and get rid of the alcohol, and we're gonna be give give me give me a society full of psilocybin and and get rid of the the cigarettes, you know what I mean? Like some of these are are more damaging to the family unit than others. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

I always tell people like you can do a really small experiment real quick, like just have a place that's full of some games and things to do and just serve alcohol to men that are 21 to 45. Watch what happens, have the same environment and bring in psilocybin or bring in cannabis, two completely different outcomes. I mean how do you not? So I mean, alcohol is one of the one of the worst things out there, yet it's sold at every stadium, every corner, the whole nine yards. But it like you said, it's it's a detriment to family, it's a detriment to people. I mean, yeah, I wish I wish alpha.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Far more addictive. I mean far more. Show me someone addicted to mushrooms. Show me someone addicted to LSD or whatever. It's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

It's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. You can eat mushrooms all day long and you're gonna be on the moon, but it's not gonna kill you and it's not gonna ruin your family, you know. So but yeah, so with mental joe, that's that's really what we were about. We're really about advocating for these things and you know doing what we can at like the state level for legislation and stuff, and going to Capitol Hill out there in the federal, you know, good old Washington, DC, and and you know, rubbing elbows with some of those folks. And I think more and more people are being open to this stuff. Like said I'm you know, Trump, you know, just the other day just signed uh big Ibogaine bill, you know. So I don't know what that all looks like, but the fact that it's it's sitting at the White House, whether you know you're a Trump fan or I don't give a shit. The fact is these things are starting to move forward because people if you just look at the science, right? You just look at the science behind psilocybin, DMT, all this stuff, and you look at the neuroplasticity windows with those different medicines, it's like, oh shit, okay, why are we not using these more? So, like you said, let's you know, with instead of chemtrails, let's throw, you know, mushroom trails in And let people chill out, you know?

SPEAKER_05 22:02

So society would be a lot happier.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:06

I so my my question is, because you you well, are you a cannabis fan?

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Big cannabis fan.

SPEAKER_05 22:15

I'm not.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_05 22:16

And the reason I say I'm not is because in the first responder world, we're already paranoid as fuck, right? Everything is a danger to us. And I get the same thing for veterans, right? But there's a difference when you live in the community that you fucking have to deal with ninjas all the time and stuff like that, right? So the danger is constantly there. So now you throw in cannabis into it and now you're fucking paranoid on top of your paranoia. Like I'm not a fan of that for first responders.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah. I mean, I I would even agree with that, but I mean, just as a like a compound danger, right? That's the only reason I was bringing it up was because nicotine and alcohol, like those don't belong. You know what I mean? No. Those are just endlessly the reason why I'm being woken up at two in the morning, you know, because somebody's gotten too drunk and now all of a sudden a family's broken and a dad's going to prison because then you throw, yeah, you throw in a 2,000-pound vehicle into the mix and it's changing not only that individual's life, but God knows what else, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 23:15

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Yeah, I think cannabis, I mean cannabis, um, I think you've got to find the right strain. You know, I think from an Indica to a hybrid to a sativa, like I like to go to the gym and I'll give them a shout-out, but M Fused, M Fused has a really good product, and they they have a product out there called uh THCV, and it's like a frickin' pre-workout. I will I will get baked in my truck, and then I will walk into the gym and I and I yeah, and I have a heart rate monitor on. So I kind of understand where I'm at, and I am in that 75 to 80 percentile of my max effective range on cannabis, and I have some of the best workouts. And then if I go in like just easy peasy sober day, I'll be lucky to hit that 70 mark. So it's really interesting. And then and then you look at cannabis and what it does to you know, the nitrous oxide and everything else, and it's like, oh, because that makes sense. But I'm a I'm a huge proponent of it. Like I I used to drink like a fish. I mean, and I'm talking, I could, I could put it down. I'm a Montana kid, you know, so it was it was it was drinking and bar fighting for me, you know. That's that's what all that's all I did. Um now I couldn't tell you the last time I had a glass of whiskey or a beer. Like just the smell of it. Like I tried cracking open a course light by the pool probably about two weeks ago, had a sip of it, and I was like, yeah, I just drained it. I through psychedelics, through probably cannabis use, like it just it doesn't entertain me. I'll go to big events and it's there's free whiskey and everything, and I don't touch it. Don't touch it. And it's it's something I'm I grew up poor, so I'm like, oh, it's if it's free, give me three. You know, let's like let's go. So so yeah, I mean, I would be the guy that'd be bellied up at the bar to get me my my free three whiskeys, you know, to start the night. But now I just we go and I just I'm the guy with the bottled water and talking to people and vomiting psychedelics as much as anybody will want to listen about it. I think so.

SPEAKER_05 25:06

I I haven't had out I haven't had a drop of alcohol since uh I renewed my vows two years ago.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

Nice. Congrats on that.

SPEAKER_05 25:13

And it's not because I had a drinking problem, I just I just didn't want anymore. Yeah. And I can feel a difference now.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Big time.

SPEAKER_05 25:19

You know, and I and I you know, I I see a lot of people that are like, oh, I'm gonna have a you know, drinks on the weekend and just unwind. I'm like, do without the alcohol.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 25:28

You'll feel you'll feel a ton better.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Like do a little microdose. Take about 30 micrograms of LSD, you'd be great. I trust, trust me. So yeah, it's um, you know, I mean, that's our that's our shtick, you know. That's that's that's the brand, that's what we're trying to do. Um, and we're growing and we're just getting ready to do paid ads. We redid our site, we're rebuilding our site for Be the Bridge. So there's just a lot of things going on. But at the end of the day, you know, if we have more voices behind this, and I always tell people if you can lead with the science behind psychedelics, like then you cut off half the conversations and arguments. Because a lot of people just don't know these things. They just say, Oh, it's a schedule one. It's a no, no, I can't do it. The government said so.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Okay. Well, did you dig into the history of these things? Did you dig into what they do to the brain and and how they recenter you?

SPEAKER_05 26:13

And so are you involved with the um the research that that's happening at Scoutsale, the SRI, the Scouts research?

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Oh, yeah, I know Sue Sisley very well. Yeah, so Sue, I'm gonna be there. Are you really? Yeah. Oh, that's what it which one are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_05 26:28

The law enforcement one.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

Okay, okay. Yeah, I know she's got a bunch going on. They just did uh was it a week and a half ago or two weeks ago? They just did the firefighters. They just did the firefighters. And what people don't realize, I don't think people understand how cool this study is, because they're actually doing it with mushrooms. It's not synthetic, it's it's the only study in the world ever done with human beings in actual mushrooms.

SPEAKER_05 26:53

Yeah, supposedly you're supposed to do a tour of the facility and see where they're growing it, the whole nine yards.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Yeah, the whole nine yards. And so the FDA is they're growing it, they they produce that medicine, they hand it over to Sue, and then they're doing all these different cohorts that you're aware of, you know, firefighters, and so I think she's doing an Ibigaine one, an LSD one, MDMA, psilocybin, and there might be one more. I think she's got five total studies that's going on. That's incredible. Yep, and so she it's funny because she reached out to us and she's like, Hey Chad, I know you got a network, we blast this out. And so literally within 48 hours, we bat blast it out on our social media. I had 50 different individuals reach out and then sent them all to Sue. And Sue was like, dude, you literally helped fill our studies. I was like, perfect, that's what we're here for.

SPEAKER_05 27:38

Yeah, because they're doing the veteran one next. I think it's next like in the next two weeks. I think so. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

Yep. I think they're they're waiting on the FDA because there was some different going on with the medicines in the background and the growing and making sure it was all done the right way. Like some of the stuff I've even talked with Mark and some other individuals there that are holding space, they're like, dude, like it's so strenuous, like how they're doing everything and who's allowed to come in and who's not allowed to come in. Like I asked Sue if, like, hey, could we come tour the facility? And she's like, uh, candidly, no. She's like, the FDA wants no one in here. Like, if you're not a space holder or you're not someone taking the medicine, they don't want you near us. It's like, okay.

SPEAKER_05 28:14

Which I yeah, I think that's good. That's good. Yeah. Because it doesn't, it doesn't tamper with anything, it doesn't change what the results are, or you know, they can't sit there and say, Oh, well, we had you know the public come in here and you know, exactly do something.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

And there'll be a time and day. I mean, we we talk to Sue probably, you know, once a month at least. She's busy, she's all over the place, you know, she's got stuff going on. I mean, if she's not doing the research up there, she's you know, she's funny. She oh, she's she's she's she's got a dock like yours.

SPEAKER_05 28:41

Does she? Well, because it was right after Mark was here, he he got me in contact with her.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 28:46

She calls me from a fucking basketball game. Like, I can hear the suns in the background. She's like, hey, you want to like fuck yeah, let's do this.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Yeah, she's a hoot. Yeah, she's 100 miles an hour. Like I said, if she's not doing research, she's you know, in some other state on a panel talking about this stuff, you know, and her background same. She was, I think, if I'm correct, she was just a psychologist. She didn't really know much about any of these medicines. And when people started like coming to her and she sat with these medicines, she's like, Oh shit. Like, I need to do more about this. And so that's where Sue became a very big advocate for this stuff. Because she was all traditional prior to this. So she understands the traditional side, now she gets the non-traditional. So now she's and now she's doing the research on top of it.

SPEAKER_05 29:27

So well and the benefits, I mean, three I mean, you can do a lot more with the plant-based medicine than you can like three years worth of talk therapy. Oh, 100%. You know, and I and there's a place for it, right? There's because you you do have to have the right mindset to do plant-based medicine. Yep. And I get it's gonna do what it's gonna do no matter what. No matter what. But if you have the open mindset for it, you're gonna benefit from it way more. Yeah. But you can say that about therapy too. Right. Well, that's the thing, is you're you could say, I'm gonna be a hundred percent open to whatever the conversation is, subconsciously, you're still fucking holding it. You're checked out. You're you're still gonna hold something from the actual conversation. You throw ketamine or whatever, different drugs.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

And all of a sudden, yeah, you're like, Yeah, that's what I said about like Sam, for 20 plus years, you know, I did all the SSRIs from a Paxel to an affection to whatever, right? And I did the talk therapy, and I could set there and I'd look at the therapist, like I'd like, I was like, I get what you're saying, but I'd walk out of that room and I like I couldn't draw a conclusion, right? Like I knew I had to put XYZ in front of my life to be on the road, but I was like, my mind through TBI stuff and everything, it was like I could never draw a conclusion for it. But now you introduce psychedelics, now I'm like, oh, that thing I did in talk therapy. Oh, I get how to use that tool now.

SPEAKER_06 30:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

So that's where it's like talk therapy is great, but if your brain's all jacked up and your hormones are all jacked up, good luck putting that shit in play. To where you introduce psychedelics and you do hence the integration to talk therapy, now it's a lot easier to look at that from a different view or a vantage point and go, Yeah, oh, that's why I gotta do this thing to get to this thing. And now it makes more sense, right? Because now your brain, the neuroplasticity, you know, you're you're growing new neurotransmitters, now you're open to these ideas as opposed to going into a therapy and you're angry and you're pissed off and you're on SSRIs and you're still drinking at night and you got your wife next to you, your significant under that, you're just you both are like this, anyways, right? And it's just like, I love I love you, but fuck you too. You know, and there's resentments and no one wants to talk about it. And again, that's why Carrie and I, we are huge uh advocates of MDMA. We call it our marriage contract. We sit with MDMA once a quarter without even question. Like we just know we look at each other and she's like, Yeah, we probably need to schedule a weekend. Nice. Because it's like, you know. Well you talk about wife and that. Yeah, I mean I mean it is, man. And it's it's so profound. It's so profound. And if pe again, if people can remove what that thing is and use it for what it is, like Carrie and I were joking about like she's like, one night we one time we need to like try to film our session and like kind of make fun of it. Like people think MDMA, they think it's I'm at Raves, I'm burning man, I'm doing that. When really it's like, no, we're like sitting in the bed and we're talking about stuff, and you know, she's sucking on a lollipop and we're just hanging out, you know. She likes blow pops, dude. It's it's like a thing. I'm like, okay, whatever. But it's the thing is, it's like you get to connect as human beings again in a way that most people never do because they're scared to take the thing or look in the mirror, you know.

SPEAKER_03 32:38

Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

I remember so my wife and I, we took an MDMA and uh we're sitting there and I'm like looking at my wife and I'm like, listener, I'm like really listening to her. Yeah, you know what I mean. I don't have all of the the conversation, the bad like I'm not I'm not all of a sudden positioning myself in a way that makes me socially acceptable, you know. I'm just like really giving her my attention, however that looks on on her end, you know. And I realized just how much I loved my wife. Like it wasn't and and and it wasn't for anything that she ever does for me, like it typically is, like it is right now. Like if I think about the love for my wife, I think right now, you know, she cooks for me, she takes care of my kids, you know, she says when I was on MDA, NDMA, I just loved her. And there's nobody that was gonna take that away from me, but I also had to admit to myself that if anybody else would have walked in that room, I would have loved them too. That's how we connected. Not in the same way, right? But like the the the social barriers between what's an appropriate emotion to have for one person over another just just seemed to dissipate ever so subtly. You know what I mean? Yeah. It just seemed like there's an abundance of positive affection for the other, whatever that meant.

SPEAKER_05 33:50

Well, that's why you go to a rave, dude. Everybody's hugging, everybody loves each other. Right? There's it doesn't matter what color, race, creed, whatever, like we're cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

You know? It erases the ego, right? And it also brings down the boundaries to accept feedback in a way that you're not defensive. You know, that's there's nothing to defend. Right. There's nothing to defend. Exactly. And that's why, like I said, it's part of our marriage contract. Because we know we got two little boys, we're 100 miles an hour, we're all over the place, right? Like just like every other American couple out there. You're 100 miles an hour, you're trying to get the thing done, you're before you know it, you do grow apart a little bit. And so that's why we say, hey, it's part of our marriage contract, because we know it brings us back to center. And then through that, we can have those hard conversations of like, hey, you do this thing, can we like stop doing this? Because it really drives me nuts. Okay, that's fair, I understand it. And it's not an immediate, like, oh, you think I'm a bad person or I'm a bad mom or I'm a bad dad because you're bringing this up. It's not like, okay, that's fair. I see where you're coming from. So exactly what you said, the barriers are gone, and you love, like Sam, I just love on my wife. I just look at her, it's like, I love you too. I love that little seven-year-old girl that got hurt. That's that's what I'm trying to help out. You know, that's legit.

SPEAKER_05 34:56

I like it. So, how do you how do you come over or help people come over that that mindset of like the drug idea? Because I I have I have a really good friend of mine, um, and I I love the shit out of him, but he he's fucking up. He's fucking up hard, right? He's destroying his marriage. Um he's coming onhing for like stupid shit or whatever. Every time I talk to him about do some academy, do some do all these different things, the idea of doing that, he cannot wrap his brain around it. And I and I I've shown him data, I've shown him all the all the positives, but the he cannot get over.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Yeah, I think it's I mean, honestly, just what we've seen, I think it's just it's steadily showing up the same way constantly. Right? Like I call it like psychedelic vomiting, right? Like I tell people, and I'm like a salesman for it, I swear to God, but I can tell real quick if someone's into it or not, right? And then I'll kind of notch back that conversation, but next time I see him, I dive a little deeper. So each time, like I I feel like you just gotta continue showing up and talking about it and doing the thing and then pointing out all the fuckery that he's doing of like, hey dude, you're doing X, Y, Z, how's that working out for you?

SPEAKER_05 36:16

Well, that's the next conversation we're gonna have. Is like you're you are fucking up. Yeah, and you're gonna lose everything.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Yeah, and I think for men, right, like as much as we don't want to hear it, like we want the strong feedback. You know, like I'm not gonna tiptoe around a story because I see what you're going through, I see your body language, I see how you treat your wives, how you treat your kids. I love you as a human being. I don't want you to go through 20 years of bullshit like I did, so I'm gonna call you out. You might not like it, but I'm gonna give you the truth of the matter, and here's what we do. So that's why I say I think the continually just you have to show up constantly with the information. Like I tell people all the time, like, hey, if you want two good documentaries just to learn, um, go watch Fantastic Fungi and go watch Um How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollen. That's a great one. Like you look at two of those like documentaries, automatically you can kind of look at these things from a different lens and go, Oh, it's not so scary. Maybe I need to take a chance on this stuff.

SPEAKER_05 37:14

Is the first one the guy that talks about how he cured his mom's cancer?

SPEAKER_02 37:18

So that is Am I thinking of the right one? You're close. Um, but it's I think it's uh it's like every dose or something like that. But I watched that one and she was out of Canada, but she essentially ended up curing her um um cancer through uh cannabis. Yeah. Heavy, heavy cannabis use, but psychedelics is what opened up that door of her to try heavy dose THC um to get rid of her cancer. Um but yeah, I think it's like it was every dose or something like that. But I know what you're talking about. But that's I mean, for your friend, I think it's being a buddy and it's showing up and it's having those hard conversations that hey dude, I love you, and here's the list of bullshit you're doing, and I see it.

SPEAKER_05 38:00

Because I I'm willing to to have that conversation, and whether or not he he takes it well or not, like I think he needs to hear it. Yeah, you know, and if it if it ruins our friendship for a little bit, I'll still be here. Yeah. Um, but I he definitely needs to fucking hear it. Yeah, and I so you and I need to talk later. Sorry, you're in the room. No, I and that's it it breaks my heart because he's such a good dude.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

Well that's just it. Like you see him for who he is at his core, right? And you know, like if he would deep dive with some of these medicines, like he would be that person that you see in him. You know, but he's so intertwined with where he's at. He's such in the bullshit. I mean, he is in the rabbit hole and he can't get out of it. You know, and he's a little scared.

SPEAKER_05 38:45

Yeah, no, and I I see it, you know, and it's it's weird because you compensate for all these weird masculinity things, and you know, I need to be around the pros, and I'm just like, Yeah, for what? You don't need it. Like, stop.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

And again, it comes back to culture, right? That's the culture that's what we're raised in. And sadly, until like I say, the warrior in the garden mentality really happens, right? And that's where I think you see too is you're getting a lot of these Navy SEALs and a lot of these Rangers and SF and Delta guys, you know, your true like tip of the spear guys coming out and like, hey dude, like I went through an IBN treatment, it changed my life. Hey, I did this, and then you realize their backstory, they were popping pain pills, they were drinking, they were you know doing coke, they were doing it's like holy shit. And then you realize truly, like, oh, I wasn't alone. So same thing when I when I burnt in on that jump and I'm popping pain pills, 19 years later I ended up reconnecting with my gunner, and he's like, Bro, there were so many guys that got medically retired on that jump because it was such a bad jump. What he told me is the Air Force went across the DZ as opposed to with the DZ. And so when guys were jumping out, they're hitting hangers, they were hitting planes. So to my demise, I had no idea dudes got jacked up that bad on this jump, and here I am thinking I'm the only one that burnt into the tarmac. You know, so it's just like no one's alone on this stuff.

SPEAKER_05 40:06

Nobody's alone.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

But no one again, right? The culture is there to shut up, put your head down, and keep grinding, as opposed to hey dude, yeah, I back I blew my back out too, and I went and got surgery and I'm better for it. You know?

SPEAKER_05 40:16

So well it's weird because uh it's even it's even deeper like for all these guys, like especially like when you talk about tier one guys, right? Yeah, like you're supposed to be the best of the best of the best. But then when they when they start diving into these therapies, like it's always childhood trauma. Always childhood. Always childhood trauma. Yep. You know, and it's and it was mine, yeah. And it was weird because I had to admit I had fucking daddy issues. I was like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 40:43

Yeah, same. Same.

SPEAKER_05 40:44

But yeah, it's weird. Um, but yeah, you see these guys and they're like, I fucking did the missions of all missions, and that stuff didn't bother me, but you throw in fucking daddy issues, and that that breaks me.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

It it and it shows you real quick how malleable you are as a little kid, right? Like if you don't get that love and affection and that thing that you need, like all of those people, me included, just you're you're fucked up in this way down the road.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Well, I think so much of it boils down to like you said, love and affection that you got. But I think the bigger problem when I talk to young men is they got the wrong kind of love and affection from their dad. You know what I mean? Like me, my self-worth for my dad was how hard I could work for him with his startup, with his carpet cleaning business, and how many girls I could get. Like that's what made my dad the most proud. That was it. You know what I mean? And so, like, that was all that was imprint imprinted on me as I was growing up, you know. I had to come to terms with that's not really a good modality for living half my life working my ass off and then just trying to get the next broad, you know what I mean? Like, but that's that was the way my dad I could see it. Like, I'd get straight A's at school, I'd do something amazing on the on the football field or whatever. But nothing would light my dad up more than hearing that I bagged another girl. You know, that was like to him, yeah. You could just see him light up. He was just so proud of me, you know.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Well, then you take that and you zoom out, right? And then you go, well, how was he raised? Yeah, and then you look at that and you're like, well, he only knew how to raise me via what he learned.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

And this is why I love him no matter what, because he didn't have a father. I mean, it impoverished childhood for him, you know what I mean? So he did a fairly good job.

SPEAKER_02 42:19

But yeah, same. I m my dad was an abusive alcoholic. I grew up in a single, my mom raised three kids on her own. So you can imagine Mama Brain, she's she's peened out working four or five jobs. My dad's an alcoholic, I barely see him. If I'm around him, I'm probably gonna get a swift kick in the ass, you know. So me having two young boys now, now I see it, man. I man, I smother those dudes in love. It is, I'll say, hey, call, and he goes, Yes, I know. I'll come give you a hug and a kiss. Uh seven and eight. Seven and eight. Yeah. So like it's it's cool because like what I've saw through these medicines is like I knew what I didn't get as a child, but I also don't blame my parents because I can zoom out and go, you know what, you guys didn't have all the tools you needed to probably be the parent that you don't have all the tools. Right, exactly. And so for me, now I just love on my boys and I meet them where they're at. Right. You know, like my oldest boy is he's oh man, he's such a freaking good athlete. And so, like this morning, you know, he woke me up at six and we went outside and played catch before the bus shows up. To where my other little guy, he's all about dinosaurs and spaceships and shit. And I'm not saying like I'm not gonna push him into sports, like that's not his gig. That's not his gig, man. I'll meet you where you're at. Let's go play with dinosaurs. You know, so I think it's understanding like we have to meet our kids where they're at and stop pushing them into arenas that are uncomfortable. Like, oh, your your little kid doesn't play baseball, you're a loser.

SPEAKER_05 43:39

No, we need to encourage what their drive is. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Correct. And that's and that's what it, you know, again, that's what this stuff has taught me. Meet them where they're at. I just gotta hold space. It's not my journey, it's their journey. I just gotta coach 'em. I just gotta hold that space for 'em and let 'em do their thing.

SPEAKER_05 43:55

No, I I like that. And it's not about blaming parents either. I mean, like you said, right? Um because I pfft my counselor and I tried to confront my dad. Um and he thought it was about blame. Yeah. And I and it was more of my childhood or my inner me being able to voice what I needed to voice. And that's all I needed, right? But yeah, everybody thinks it's about fucking blame. It has nothing to do with blame. Parents do the best that they can with the cards they've dealt. And it may be fucked up and it may be great and whatever, but you just gotta do what you gotta do.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Yeah, I mean I had those conversations, I had a very hard conversation with my dad. He handled it really well. I was surprised at how well he handled it. But he didn't he didn't own any of the abuse and everything like that. And then I am, you know, and I I went in that conversation with the same thing. Like, I don't need approval from you. I just need to voice this so you know it's there. Whether you you set with it or not, that's on you. And the same thing I had the conversation with my mom, she got defensive. I'm like, you're not hearing me. Like, I'm not blaming you, but I'm telling you what happened, yeah, how it how it made me who I was to this day. And I want to erase some of that because I didn't always show up right. I would al I would always blow off my handle or I'd be quick to act to something. Hey, I I own all that, so can we leave the swords and the shields at the front door? And can you guys just come in and like not be so chippy about stuff? Like, because if you're not chippy, I'm not chippy. But when you come swinging, you know, the big sword at me, I immediately got a punch out of a corner. It's just how I was raised. Yeah, for sure. You know, so it's it's having those conversations, and again, I think that's what psychedelics does. It helps you look at things from a different mirror and a different perspective to have those hard conversations that none of us really want to have. They're uncomfortable. But if you can be in that set and setting and remove feelings from them and say, okay, I just gotta have this talk to move things forward, it's a game changer. And whether they meet you there or not, that's on them, that's not on you.

SPEAKER_05 45:44

No, that's true. You know, because you just need the space to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

That's it.

SPEAKER_05 45:48

And if they don't give it to you, you still at least made your own effort, that's it, and that's all you need. Yeah, and it's weird because all the fucking counseling and all the bullshit I went through, like that simple answer would have been so much easier to accept, you know, versus like, oh well, let's do this and do that. And it's just like fuck man, I just need five minutes. But that's my soul background.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_05 46:15

Cool, man. So with how long have you how long has it under the bridge been or the So Mental Joe?

SPEAKER_02 46:21

I mean, we've been at this, I guess you'd say four years.

SPEAKER_05 46:24

No, no, no, the bridge the bridge part. So how long is that? So be the bridge?

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Yeah, being yeah, so we just re redid that with the IRS and refiled paperwork and everything. Because same thing, we had Mental Joe and then Mental Joe Foundation. So people are always kind of wondering, like, I I don't understand. Like, what do you are you apparel? Are you a foundation? And so Through psychedelics, Carrie came up with, well, hey, we're kind of like a bridge for a lot of people. Like, people come to us because they trust us. She's like, why don't we have like we're the bridge or something? And so we just started kind of Googling, she's like, I got it. We're we're be the bridge foundation, you know, and I looked it up and I was like, hey, the URL's there, done, bought it. Um, and so just recently, like, we just transitioned. I mean, it's still there, but now it's true be the bridge foundation powered by mental joe apparel. Yeah. Um, so it's there. I mean, we're we're very I mean, it's Carrie and I that are driving most of the bus. You know, we're trying to get our board built and you know, all that kind of stuff, but it's been real organic, grassroots growing this brand. Um, again, people know us via you know different connections or people wearing a shirt and seeing us out and going, hey, that's that mental joe dude, right? I'm like, yeah. So it's kind of fun. Like, we've gone over to conferences too over in Vegas, and this guy comes off um the elevator and he's wearing our warrior in the garden shirt. As I'm getting ready to come to the elevator, he walks off. I'm like, hey, dude, great shirt. He's like, Yeah, this dude's got some cool shit, man. I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:48

I'm the dude.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

I'm like, yeah, he does. And Carrie's like, you need to talk. I'm like, no, I just want to be the guy behind the scenes. Like, let the message speak for itself, let people buy the apparel. I don't need the bullshit. But it's kind of cool. Like, we'll go to different conferences and people are wearing the stuff, and I'll just kind of sit back and go, huh, created that in the old garage, and people are rocking this out out in public.

SPEAKER_05 48:06

So that's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

It's fun, it's fun to see. But yeah, I mean, be the bridge. I mean, we like say we've been at this for four years. Um, but the cleaner line in the sand recently is be the bridge is our foundational piece for the 501c3.

SPEAKER_05 48:20

Cool. Um how how do people get in contact with you on that portion if they need the assistance for like a scholarship or yeah?

SPEAKER_02 48:28

I mean, so saying we're kind of building that out because same thing, like I I I get burnt out. Like I've got guys and gals that'll text me. Uh, I've got Instagram messages, LinkedIn. I mean, every platform I'm like constantly checking and being like, hey man, if you want time with me, I need you to like schedule a call. So I've gotten really good at drawing boundaries there and saying, hey, I'll have a conversation with you, but I need you to book a call because I'm drowning. Like I said, we in this last week and a half, we'd 15 individuals just reach out to us because they wanted to understand MDMA therapy. So I'm like, okay, we can do the thing, but I need you to book some time.

SPEAKER_03 49:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

Like I'm literally driven by my calendar because otherwise, when we first started this, I was giving people so much of my time. It wasn't good for my mental health. I was meeting people, you know, out in Gilbert, I was meeting people in Scottsdale for coffees, and we'd sit and I talk to them for two or three hours and essentially on the soapbock about psychedelics and how it'll change your life, and you've got to put the bottle away and stop popping pills and you know the thing. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it's it's the brand's great, but it's it's it's wearing us out on the backside. So that's where it's like we we have to build these these boundaries to have people, you know, give us a call that way. But yeah, absolutely. Mental Joe apparel. Um, we're on Instagram, but until we have that that structure built out, I just tell people, hit me, you know, give me a DM, or if you got my cell, give me a text, and we'll give you the time. But but yeah, I mean, we're we want to get to a point where we build it out where people like Mark, right? Mark's a you know, psychedelic integration coach, you know, he's a spaceholder where it's kind of behind a paywall, essentially. People come to our site, you know, they do a little paywall for a consultation, and then behind that paywall is people like Mark and others with a little paragraph of what do they do, what's their background. And so you've got 10, 20 people on our website where it's like, oh, I really like this guy. I'm gonna book a call with this guy. Pick and choose, yeah. Yeah. Because it's just it's gotten to a point where it's just too hard for Carrie and I to try try to handle all those conversations. We'd rather pass those off to people that want to be the therapist, that want to be the space holder, and get those people directly to it.

SPEAKER_05 50:27

And people do need to respect respect your time too. I mean, it's it's it's it's very draining when you get multiple calls and you want to help as many people as you can. Yep, but it is fucking draining.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

There's just so many people to help and so few resources, you know. I mean, there's more and more, right? Yeah. After watch, what you're up to. But yeah, it it's exhausting. We're all exhausted.

SPEAKER_06 50:48

Yeah, we're very tired.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Yeah. I mean, it's it's nonstop, right? I mean, you guys, you guys see it on your side, and it's you know, we we talk a lot to the G, I mean, Mental Joe is, you know, for the G.I. Joe's to the average Joe. And like I say, there's not a lot of people that have the voice for the average Joe out there, the guy that, you know, wasn't a first responder or he wasn't in the military, but he's been working construction for 20 years, and his backs and knees are shot to shit. But the only way he knows how to unwind is going home and pounding a bottle of whiskey. Well, and that whiskey turns into a fight, and then that fight turns into something else, and it's it's like, no, man, like there's other ways to go about this. And so if you're open to it, like these conversations can be had.

SPEAKER_05 51:28

For sure. Alright, so I gotta I gotta I got a ranger question because you're our first ranger. Okay. Alright, so I I obviously know the difference between a scroll and a tab. Yep. Yep. So do you guys for when you guys have a scroll and you just have a tab dude just talking about how he's a ranger.

SPEAKER_02 51:48

Oh, that's a fucking no-no.

SPEAKER_05 51:49

Is that yeah? I hear, dude, I had a guy on the fucking apartment with me. Walked around all the time. I'm fucking ranger.

SPEAKER_02 51:56

I'm like he just went to ranger school.

SPEAKER_05 51:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:59

He was 10th Mountain. Okay. Right? Yeah. But he's he's fucking just pulling that shit all the time. Like, dude, that does not sound right to me.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

No.

SPEAKER_05 52:06

And I wasn't in the army, I was a marine, so it was a little different for me. But um, yeah, we'd I'd fucking hear it all the time. Like, that doesn't seem right.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

No, it's I mean, when you're in ranger regiment, it's the life of a ranger. Right. When you're ranger school literally every single goddamn day.

SPEAKER_05 52:22

Because you're earning your keep every day.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Correct. And so we say there's there's there's uh what is it, uh tab or it's uh scroll wearers and tab bearers. Okay. So it's like that's a school. That's cool. Like almost every guy at regiment goes to ranger school, and that's what keeps you in regiment, because if you don't get your tab, you can't really stay in regiment. And so then that's where you walk the ladder from you know, Ranger Battalion, SF, Delta, and so forth. But yeah, it's yeah, you talk to guys that wear the scroll and the beret, and they'll be like, Yeah, dude, you went to a school, you're not a ranger.

SPEAKER_05 52:57

This is just a leadership course, it's just a leadership course.

SPEAKER_02 52:59

I mean, it's one of the toughest courses out there. Yeah, and I'm not saying I'm not saying they didn't know. But I know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_05 53:04

Yeah, whatever, but I always thought it was funny because I was like, this guy just seems like he's talking the shit all the time.

SPEAKER_02 53:10

Yeah, I mean, I get people all the time that'll be like, Yeah, I'm a ranger. I'm like, Oh, did you go to school or are you in regiment? And they're like, I went to the school. I'm like, oh, okay. And I just leave it alone, I walk away. So same thing. I mean, I was at regiment for like a year. I, you know, for me, I don't really consider myself a guy that was really in soft long or really a ranger because it was like blew out my back, stole phone cards, got kicked out. So I was like, to me, I'm like, eh, I don't I don't really try to put myself in that group of dudes, right? Because it's like I didn't have the longevity there. At least you learned it. Right, but in my mindset, right? That's where it's like, you know, I lived it, but not very long, you know. So it's it's one of those things. It's uh you teeter, totter. And now that I've got a ton of buddies that are regiment guys and SF and Delta buddies, and they're like, dude, no, you were there. Like, yeah, it's 1% of 1% that even get through these schools to get to regiment. So like whether you got hurt or not, you just own that, dude. I'm like, okay. So I'm slowly settling into that story, you know. So I can dig it.

SPEAKER_05 54:11

Well, I appreciate you answering that because yeah, I've always wondered, and I was like, I don't talk to enough rangers.

SPEAKER_02 54:17

Yeah, I'm a scroll wearer, not a tab bearer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:21

So uh we'd love to put you on our website so that way at least people that have questions or whatever, you know, they can schedule a time with you. But just the idea of being able to know that there's ways to bridge, obviously, yeah, into getting into therapy and all that other stuff.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

Yeah, yeah, and we really are a resource. I mean, same like as we build out be the bridge foundation, love to have you guys on our website too, because we're all about how many resources can we have to where if people come on our site, it's literally right there. You know, everyone's got the the 911 and the the suicide hotlines and all that. Okay, cool. But if someone's really looking for, hey, how can I help myself with XYZ? Hopefully we have that covered. Or if you're again you're a first responder, you want to reach out to other first responders, boom, hey, you got your guys' foundation there. They can call you, hey, what do we do with XY?

SPEAKER_05 55:09

So I mean we have the crisis hotline and stuff like that, but that's not our bread and butter. We want to do long-term, try to get you the sustainable stuff. 100%. Not just the uh I'm in crisis, right? The second one.

SPEAKER_01 55:22

Yeah, the acute problem. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:24

Because yeah, there's plenty of organizations that'll do that all day long. All day long.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

Yeah, and that's it's that that's great up front, that quick coverage, but like I'm saying we're longevity. Yeah, how do we get people out of the yuck now so they're they're better to do that.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

How do we get people closer to their kids for the kids can move out? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

And then it's the one thing like I'm super grateful for, like catching all this shit now. And again, it was six years ago this May. So for me, it's a really clean line in the sand. You know, like the other day, like Connor was pitching, and he he man, the he's just a good athlete. It's trying to not have the dad bias, but he's really good. And I just had that moment watching him, and I'm like, there's no way this kid is pitching, there's no way this kid is doing what he's doing now if I'm not around. Because now he's he's at nine years old still carrying the burden of why is my dad not here? Why did my dad take his life? So you I can really see those different dynamics now.

SPEAKER_05 56:19

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 56:20

So it's like I'm super present. So what like I tell people, you want my time, like you need the book, you need we'll do it. But my boys, my wife, they come first.

SPEAKER_01 56:29

It's like that Christmas movie where that guy was gonna like jump off the bridge. What what movie is that?

SPEAKER_06 56:34

What?

SPEAKER_01 56:35

What's that Christmas movie where the guy's gonna jump off the bridge but then has that the aha moment? The aha moment. What what would the world be as community be without him being? That's the one watch his kids pitch.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

Captain Miracle on 34th Street moment where Yeah, and it's it's weird because I'll I'll have those moments a lot. You know, I'll see Colin doing something, and I'm like, sure, there's no way he has the mental capability right now if I'm not around. I know that.

SPEAKER_03 56:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:59

So it's like I can see those dynamics, you know, real quick. And especially dads that aren't around that did take their lives or a mom or whatever, and you see those kids, and you're like, oh, you poor little shit, man, like you're holding a lot that you don't even know how to address.

SPEAKER_05 57:15

Dude, it's crazy when you talk about that, like even babies carry so much burden with a brain. Well, it's and it's just instinctual, they just do it.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Well, it's part of like there's studies out there now that they know like from that mom and the stress and the trauma that the mother carries, that actually is carried down through the DNA to the child. So if that if that is a messy situation, that child comes out and it already is attached to that trauma.

SPEAKER_05 57:41

Yeah, but I'm not even so like if you talk about young parents just had a baby, yeah, right, their baby will instinctually start crying if the parents start fighting because now they're trying to draw the attention away from that. Like, that's crazy to me.

SPEAKER_06 57:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:56

You know? And then you have all these kids that are having to live with all this shit forever.

SPEAKER_02 58:00

Like it's fucking wild. And then they become adults and then they have all the problems, and they go, Well, why why do I have this problem? Why do you not think this way?

SPEAKER_01 58:06

Yeah. Then they gotta forgive their parents. Yeah, you gotta go through the whole cycle.

SPEAKER_05 58:11

Well, that I mean, that's the thing, is like I I remember just how awful I was to my kids, you know. And I'm now trying to make sure it's up, yeah. Fix it, do all the things I can.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

How's that working for you? Like, are they open to that? Like now that you've known, right, you've owned it.

SPEAKER_05 58:27

Yeah, I've owned it. Um, so I have two biological kids and then uh two that I adopted, one who just recently passed. And the efforts that I'm making now, um the biggest thing was I I gave them the opportunity to st to tell me honestly where I didn't meet the requirements that they needed. Which was a hard conversation, right? I'm like, you can say whatever you want to say, and I will be there for you and give you space for your feelings. And that was a fucking hard conversation, right? Because who knows what they're gonna say. And I just gotta own it. And I can't I can't give excuses, I can't sit there and try to figure out a way to not be the bad guy because I was the bad guy.

SPEAKER_03 59:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:15

But you can say what you want to say. It was it was freeing. It really was. Good. It was scary, but free.

SPEAKER_02 59:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:23

And that's and I challenge anybody to fucking do that shit.

SPEAKER_02 59:25

A hundred percent. I've already I've already said carry when the boys are older, like I know I'll be in that space, say, hey dude, like we're gonna sit and have a conversation. Like I've started like doing little journal, like I almost call them like love letters to my boys. So like every something pops up, I take a quick notation on an app and it sets there, and then I'll eventually turn it into like a full-on kind of book that I hand them at like 18. Well, just no, just from a standpoint of like, hey, if you ever question of like, did dad really love me? Did dad do this? Like, here's all the things that I kept, and you have a bad day, go just go read some of these because it'll all be about, you know, hey, I remember this time I jumped on you, I I apologize, but yet I know that could have left an imprint on you. But what did I what did I not do? How did I not meet you as a dad?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

Yeah, you know, and just owning it in the same that's where tragedy could be like a great teacher, though. Like when I stuff telling you I snap my knee, right? And um on my second knee injury, I was laid up for about eight solid months before I could walk. I had to learn to re rewalk again. But um remember having this moment, I was sitting in this in the chair and I was thinking about my knee injury, and there was just so many things that were obviously gonna have to change after my knee injury. I wasn't gonna be able to be a firefighter anymore, you know. I wasn't gonna be able to work for my dad's carpet cleaning business anymore, I wasn't gonna be able to do you know, squat the weight or just do all these things that I was used used to doing. Um and that was eating me up inside all the things I couldn't do. But then I had this realization that, you know, my kids at the time were 10 and 8. And I was a pretty good dad. I was a first responder father, but I was a good dad involved. Um, but it dawned on me that someday my kids are gonna come to me with this like dad being laid up for a year is too big of an incident in their life for them not to have an interpretation of some kind, right? And at some point they were gonna come to me in their life with this story, and the story was gonna go something like this you were this dad before the knee injury, and then you were this dad after the knee injury. And I all like all I wanted to do is make that after as best as it could possibly be. There's nothing I could do about the before knee injury, you know what I mean? And so since that it's just been kind of like I just want them to come to me and say, you know what? That knee injury is the best thing that ever happened to us. It slowed you down quite a bit. Yeah, I just want to connect. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:40

Because we have a reconnection program that we run through uh Toscano Farms, and the idea behind it is obviously as a first responder, you miss out on a ton of shit. Yeah, right? So we give the opportunity for a first responder, whether it's male or female, to a child, they go and they learn how to work together with these horses.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

Not just any child. Their child. Their child. Not just any child.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:06

I gotta go to a Mago store and pick up a kid, and I'm gonna go play with horses.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:10

So yeah, so it's their kid. Um and it's cool because they have to learn how to work together to get the horse to do what they want. Because the horse is gonna not it's gonna stop. Exactly. You know, one person's gonna try to overtake it, and if they don't work together, it's not gonna work right.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:27

No.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:27

But we had a huge success. And uh, yeah, so if you know individuals that are going through that kind of stuff, like definitely show them show them our website because it's it's been really cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

Yeah, and it's it's you guys would be a beautiful tool for us too, because same thing, like we deal with so many guys and gals out there on the east side of the valley, you know, and same because I'm not plugged in fully to the first responder, I don't know what's all out there for everybody. For me, the first thing is like ketamine and the Hunter Club will help you pay through it through a grant, you know, and then then there's all these ancillary type things that they can go do as well. So the more that you know tools that we have in our quiver that we can hand out to people, the better.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:06

Yeah, you know. And that's why we focus more on the first responder side, just because there is a lot of resources on the veteran side. 100%. Um, so we're trying to obviously fill in the gaps where we can, but yeah, and that's your brotherhood.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:18

So it's I mean, that should be where you guys focus because that's a conversation you guys can share with all those individuals because you've you've sat in those chairs, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:26

Cool, man. Well, I appreciate you coming out. I appreciate you guys. Absolutely, yeah. She's got funny story. Yeah. Bring some MMA.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:35

We we can all sit here and pet a plush pillow and and talk. So Kelly's gonna be like, what the fuck is gonna do better?

SPEAKER_05 1:03:45

She's like, you fucking weirdo. Yeah, so we'll we'll add you to the website with the like logo and all that stuff and awesome.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:55

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:55

Dope. Well thanks for coming up.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:56

Yeah, likewise, thank you.